brian lamb
2011-12-04 00:56:22 UTC
Johannes von Ebersdorf
about the Rolls Royce factory. Americans would describe that as minor
collateral damage. The intent of the attack was clearly NOT to create
maximum civilian casualties, the way that allied attacks were.
was only after many months of British terrorist work in western
Germany. To have 17,000 fatalities in a city of 8 million is a
radically different picture than the deliberate carnage the
Anglo-American monsters created in Germany.
again civilian deaths was not the aim of the attack.
terrorists. The Americans have done far worse things to villages that
did only a tiny impression of the partisans of Lidice.
in
the former Soviet Union, the creators of the Katyn story.
your naive faith in your saintly hero Stalin and the truth of his
reports. Katyn is a good example of Stalin's commitment to truth.
bombing atrocities preceded your claims in time, so one couldn't have
anything to do with the other.
that planned and launched WWII. In almost every case, Hitler was in
the bad position of REACTING to allied initiates.
places
had Britain not fomented WWII to satisfy the demented hallucinations
of Churchill and Halifax.
Himmler, with delusions of being received as a hero, surrendered to the
British, eventually also committing suicide. Doenitz, the *de facto* head
of the German state, was stuck holding the bag when the end came. Quite a
bunch of heroes; quite a way to demonstrate their responsibility to the
German people.
There are times when suicide is rational, and given what awaited them
at the hands of the "heroic" allies and their mentally ill leaders,
this was one of those times.
If you are a national leader, you have some resonsibility to the people
you have led into ignominious defeat.
There was nothing "ignominious" about it. No German government could
have prevented what took place because it wasn't their initiative.
Germany had about 7% of the population of its three principal
opponents and much less than 1% of the land area of its three
principal opponents. In all, considering that Germany was
simultaneously at war with 56 countries in the world coalition that
Britain had cobbled together, they didn't do that badly.
Germany survived, despite allied efforts to destroy her. Germany
today
is in the same position as she was in 1900, namely the principal
European power. Of its giant opponents, the USSR, the British Empire,
and the French Empire no longer exist, and the American Empire is on
its way out.
Eugene, if you really believe that Stalin and his confederates,
Churchill and Roosevelt were peace-loving saints. They were anything
but peace-loving.
considerable wisdom, courage, and foresight by deciding *not* to join the
party.
Stalin thought that Germany was practically dead when Molotov
engineered the war with Germany in 1941.
Ach so! It was *Molotov* who "engineered" the most massive coordinated
military attack in human history, reaching from the Arctic Ocean to the
Black Sea, and beginning early in the morning of June 22, 1941. Glaubst Du
das wirklich, oder versuchst Du mich zu verkohlen?
Virtually all of Molotov's units were within a few kilometres of the
border. It was obvious what the USSR had been planning, and numerous
Russian authors since have verified that.
citizens, ultimately came out of WW II pretty well.
It no longer exists. What is your definition of "well"?
die immediately. That was not destined to happen until 1990. Stalin
had wanted to spread the Communist system around the globe. He failed
totally and the Russian people paid the price for his adventures.
The above is what this thread was intended to be about. What is your
opinion of Jeckeln and the *Sardinenpackung* method for the mass murder of
unsuspecting, unarmed, and innocent civilians that he perfected at the
massacres of Kamianets-Podilskyi, Babi Yar, and Rumbula? Do you not
understand that it was *Scheiße* such as this that the allies,
particularly the Soviets, were giving some payback for as they kicked
Germany in the teeth by firebombing it and terrorizing its population when
it was already down and almost out in early 1945?
I readily concede that two wrongs don't make a right, but the firebombing
of Germany and the nuclear bombing of Japan cannot be understood as issues
separate from the Holocaust, related atrocities, and terror bombings
carried out by Nazi Germany all over Europe, or Imperial Japan's attack on
Pearl Harbor.
Japan's actions at Pearl Harbor hardly justify the American
anti-civilian campaign against Japanese cities culminating in the
nuclear attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two totally
unnecessary demonstrations of American racism.
Anti-civilian atrocities are the hallmark of the USA virtually its
entire pathetic history. These cowardly bastards murdered millions
everywhere they went. The complete list would take pages, but The
Philippines, Cuba, Latin America, Japan, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan
and Mexico come to mind immediately. Germany was just another example
of American excess and blood-lust.
You have become your typical American, Eugene, despite your black
background, in that you like to lecture others about morality while
at
the same time being far worse than the people you harangue.
<deletions>
genocide all over Europe. Do the names Coventry
Oh get off the pot, Eugene. Coventry had 380 fatalities, all in orNo Eugene, the allied orgy of mass murder occurred for no other reason
than that the allies were in a position to do it. You are trying to
invent justifications to make the events plausible, but they simply
don't exist. Everybody, on both sides, knew that the war was lost, but
Germans still hoped that the obvious intended genocide by the allies
could be staved off or at least delayed.
The Germans had spent the past four years fire bombing and committingthan that the allies were in a position to do it. You are trying to
invent justifications to make the events plausible, but they simply
don't exist. Everybody, on both sides, knew that the war was lost, but
Germans still hoped that the obvious intended genocide by the allies
could be staved off or at least delayed.
genocide all over Europe. Do the names Coventry
about the Rolls Royce factory. Americans would describe that as minor
collateral damage. The intent of the attack was clearly NOT to create
maximum civilian casualties, the way that allied attacks were.
, Battle of London,
There were as a matter of fact 17,000 fatalities in London, but thatwas only after many months of British terrorist work in western
Germany. To have 17,000 fatalities in a city of 8 million is a
radically different picture than the deliberate carnage the
Anglo-American monsters created in Germany.
Rotterdam,
This much publicized attack had fewer than 1,000 fatalities, so onceagain civilian deaths was not the aim of the attack.
Lidice,
I find it hard to get too worked up over Communist partisans andterrorists. The Americans have done far worse things to villages that
did only a tiny impression of the partisans of Lidice.
Rumbula, Babi Yar,
I take with a large grain of salt anything that supposedly happenedin
the former Soviet Union, the creators of the Katyn story.
Oradour-sur-Glane,
That is another case of Communist partisans who came to grief.900-day Siege of Leningrad,
What about it, Eugene. Are there pleasant sieges?Warsaw ghetto,
How did your Soviet heroes deal with revolts. Eugene?Auschwitz, Belzec, Chlemno, Majdanek, Salaspils,
Sobibor, Treblinka mean nothing to you?
Once again, those are all reports generated in Moscow. I don't haveSobibor, Treblinka mean nothing to you?
your naive faith in your saintly hero Stalin and the truth of his
reports. Katyn is a good example of Stalin's commitment to truth.
When Nazi Germany pull this kind
of crap it had to know that it was risking being paid back in kind,
One has nothing to do with the other, plus the fact that the alliedof crap it had to know that it was risking being paid back in kind,
bombing atrocities preceded your claims in time, so one couldn't have
anything to do with the other.
perhaps with interest, even if, as I said previously, two wrongs don't
make a right.
war
The fascists were not nice people, but it was Churchill and Rooseveltmake a right.
You are defending the
indefensible like so many other partisans with propaganda-inspired
tunnel-vision on this newsgroup.
It's not that simple. The Nazis unleased an unprecedentedly aggressiveindefensible like so many other partisans with propaganda-inspired
tunnel-vision on this newsgroup.
war
that planned and launched WWII. In almost every case, Hitler was in
the bad position of REACTING to allied initiates.
, thinking that their speed and ruthlessness would assure a quick and
total victory over nations that they regarded as their racial and cultural
inferiors.
You are naively believing your own propaganda fables.total victory over nations that they regarded as their racial and cultural
inferiors.
They were wrong, and the destruction suffered by Germany,
actually quite trivial considering the amount of destruction Germany
inflicted on Poland, the USSR, and the Jews of Europe, has to be
understood as partial payback for this hubris.
The German armed services would never have been in any of thoseactually quite trivial considering the amount of destruction Germany
inflicted on Poland, the USSR, and the Jews of Europe, has to be
understood as partial payback for this hubris.
places
had Britain not fomented WWII to satisfy the demented hallucinations
of Churchill and Halifax.
No German government ever did surrender.
Correct. Hitler and Goebbels committed suicide, Borman disappeared.Himmler, with delusions of being received as a hero, surrendered to the
British, eventually also committing suicide. Doenitz, the *de facto* head
of the German state, was stuck holding the bag when the end came. Quite a
bunch of heroes; quite a way to demonstrate their responsibility to the
German people.
at the hands of the "heroic" allies and their mentally ill leaders,
this was one of those times.
you have led into ignominious defeat.
have prevented what took place because it wasn't their initiative.
Germany had about 7% of the population of its three principal
opponents and much less than 1% of the land area of its three
principal opponents. In all, considering that Germany was
simultaneously at war with 56 countries in the world coalition that
Britain had cobbled together, they didn't do that badly.
Germany survived, despite allied efforts to destroy her. Germany
today
is in the same position as she was in 1900, namely the principal
European power. Of its giant opponents, the USSR, the British Empire,
and the French Empire no longer exist, and the American Empire is on
its way out.
It is a clear indication of the
mental illness that was Nazism that the top leaders, with the exception of
Göring and the discredited Himmler, realizing that defeat was total,
killed not only themselves but their wives, chldren, and pet dog as well.
If you consider Stalin, Truman, and Churchill to be mentally ill, what
attribute do you reserve for Hitler, Goebbels, Bormann, Göring, and
Himmler?
I didn't mention Truman. You are coming across as haplessly naive,mental illness that was Nazism that the top leaders, with the exception of
Göring and the discredited Himmler, realizing that defeat was total,
killed not only themselves but their wives, chldren, and pet dog as well.
If you consider Stalin, Truman, and Churchill to be mentally ill, what
attribute do you reserve for Hitler, Goebbels, Bormann, Göring, and
Himmler?
Eugene, if you really believe that Stalin and his confederates,
Churchill and Roosevelt were peace-loving saints. They were anything
but peace-loving.
I hardly think that the pathetic gang of arse-kissers that were
appointed postwar to administer Germany on behalf of the allies showed
any responsibility to the German people.
Heuss? Adenauer? Erhard? Wirtschaftswunder?appointed postwar to administer Germany on behalf of the allies showed
any responsibility to the German people.
In so many cases, the postwar
bunch was totally incompetent and their only virtue was that they had
never been members of "the party". In many cases that was merely
because the people had been too stupid and slow-witted to qualify for
membership and those qualifications, or lack of them, really showed in
the postwar chaos.
Given the legacy left by the NSDP, I would say that they showedbunch was totally incompetent and their only virtue was that they had
never been members of "the party". In many cases that was merely
because the people had been too stupid and slow-witted to qualify for
membership and those qualifications, or lack of them, really showed in
the postwar chaos.
considerable wisdom, courage, and foresight by deciding *not* to join the
party.
At the end, it was the exhausted German army that surrendered after
having done its duty and then some.
Like killing some 25,000,000 citizens of the USSRhaving done its duty and then some.
engineered the war with Germany in 1941.
military attack in human history, reaching from the Arctic Ocean to the
Black Sea, and beginning early in the morning of June 22, 1941. Glaubst Du
das wirklich, oder versuchst Du mich zu verkohlen?
border. It was obvious what the USSR had been planning, and numerous
Russian authors since have verified that.
Stalin wanted to roll up
Europe to the Atlantic. Stalin did not celebrate in 1945 with the rest
of the Russians because he knew that he had been defeated. The
"corpse" still had enough life to thwart Stalin's ambitions in Europe.
Seems to me the USSR, although losing more than 25,000,000 of itsEurope to the Atlantic. Stalin did not celebrate in 1945 with the rest
of the Russians because he knew that he had been defeated. The
"corpse" still had enough life to thwart Stalin's ambitions in Europe.
citizens, ultimately came out of WW II pretty well.
A pariah nation whose
military got a bloody nose from little Finland when it attacked in the
early days of WW II, it emerged from the conflict as a world power, soon
to have nuclear arms, and rivaled only by the United States. That's quite
a developmental trajectory in less than a decade. During the years
immediately following the war the USSR acquired and maintained a *cordon
sanitaire*, a colonial empire of sorts, distancing itself geographically
from Germany. It acquired and kept territory from Finland, Estonia,
Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, and Romania. It undid the Anschluß of
Germany and Austria, occupying part of both countries. Its occupation of
Germany kept that country down, weak, and humiliated by dividing the
country, a situation that lasted for almost two generations. If you call
that a defeat, I wonder what you would call a vistory?
The USSR was mortally wounded by the events of 1945. It just didn'tmilitary got a bloody nose from little Finland when it attacked in the
early days of WW II, it emerged from the conflict as a world power, soon
to have nuclear arms, and rivaled only by the United States. That's quite
a developmental trajectory in less than a decade. During the years
immediately following the war the USSR acquired and maintained a *cordon
sanitaire*, a colonial empire of sorts, distancing itself geographically
from Germany. It acquired and kept territory from Finland, Estonia,
Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, and Romania. It undid the Anschluß of
Germany and Austria, occupying part of both countries. Its occupation of
Germany kept that country down, weak, and humiliated by dividing the
country, a situation that lasted for almost two generations. If you call
that a defeat, I wonder what you would call a vistory?
die immediately. That was not destined to happen until 1990. Stalin
had wanted to spread the Communist system around the globe. He failed
totally and the Russian people paid the price for his adventures.
and perfecting the
Jeckeln system (Sardinenpackung) for killing up to 12,500 civilians a day?
Jeckeln system (Sardinenpackung) for killing up to 12,500 civilians a day?
opinion of Jeckeln and the *Sardinenpackung* method for the mass murder of
unsuspecting, unarmed, and innocent civilians that he perfected at the
massacres of Kamianets-Podilskyi, Babi Yar, and Rumbula? Do you not
understand that it was *Scheiße* such as this that the allies,
particularly the Soviets, were giving some payback for as they kicked
Germany in the teeth by firebombing it and terrorizing its population when
it was already down and almost out in early 1945?
I readily concede that two wrongs don't make a right, but the firebombing
of Germany and the nuclear bombing of Japan cannot be understood as issues
separate from the Holocaust, related atrocities, and terror bombings
carried out by Nazi Germany all over Europe, or Imperial Japan's attack on
Pearl Harbor.
anti-civilian campaign against Japanese cities culminating in the
nuclear attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two totally
unnecessary demonstrations of American racism.
Anti-civilian atrocities are the hallmark of the USA virtually its
entire pathetic history. These cowardly bastards murdered millions
everywhere they went. The complete list would take pages, but The
Philippines, Cuba, Latin America, Japan, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan
and Mexico come to mind immediately. Germany was just another example
of American excess and blood-lust.
You have become your typical American, Eugene, despite your black
background, in that you like to lecture others about morality while
at
the same time being far worse than the people you harangue.
Over,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman